1438 Performance Builds

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MikeGreer
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Re: 1438 Performance Builds

Post by MikeGreer » Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:16 pm

Joe, back in my drag racing days, my formative teenage years, one of my close friends had a 442. As you say, balanced and blueprinted was the first order of business for serious performance. Do they not call it blueprinting anymore?
45 years with a spider, that's a long time
Restoring the '79 for the second time, you're never finished ;)
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bartigue
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Re: 1438 Performance Builds

Post by bartigue » Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:44 pm

SimcaBertone66 wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:59 pm
It took me a long time to formulate what my point would be … as it relates to the question posed….. time machine here... imaging a brand new, never run, off the assembly line, 1438 TC, from a about to be shipped Spider …. .. perhaps to the USA …. pull it out and take it apart..... have the "racing department" engine team reassemble it , without changing a single part, to way higher standard, match every part, one to another, cc the combustion chambers , 3 angle valve job, optimum valve setting/adjustment, slave over setting up the crankshaft, we use to call it "blueprinting" every part, and a dynamically balanced rotating assembly, including clutch/flywheel … … I think that would constitute a "performance build" without including increased compression from pistons, hotter cam, larger carburetor and more powerful ignition system …
Good points all around, except perhaps on carburetion. The euro carb was sufficient, the USA carb was a mind-numbing boredom machine (28/32 DHSA)!
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Brad Artigue
1969, 1969, 1970, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1982, and 1982 124 Spiders
1969, 1970 850 Spiders
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SimcaBertone66
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Re: 1438 Performance Builds

Post by SimcaBertone66 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:57 pm

"Larger carburetor" …. substitute an "appropriately sized, properly tuned " carburetor va bene ?
Joe DeGasperis
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bartigue
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Re: 1438 Performance Builds

Post by bartigue » Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:10 pm

SimcaBertone66 wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:57 pm
"Larger carburetor" …. substitute an "appropriately sized, properly tuned " carburetor va bene ?
Which would, in this case, be a larger carburetor.

The 1438 stock carburetor (for USA) was so anemic that it had a negative effect on throttle response - e.g. the throttle bucked when activated. Switching the car to a 34DMS/DFH or the 28/36DHSA2 or 3 from the 1608 cured most of the issue. The remainder of the issue was just due to the silly throttle rod mechs.
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Brad Artigue
1969, 1969, 1970, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1982, and 1982 124 Spiders
1969, 1970 850 Spiders
77 X1/9
http://fiat.artigue.com
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friedman
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Re: 1438 Performance Builds

Post by friedman » Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:25 am

As to blue printing, which I think is still a used term, I was always under the impression that Fiat motors were actually pretty good as done at the factory. Not that they couldn't use some extra porting etc. As I understand it, USA bound motors had lower compression and limper cams than European bound motors. Perhaps building it to Euro spec would make for a nice street motor.

And, of course, there is the 800 pound gorilla in the room. Build up a nice 2L. Use the block mounted dizzy and stud mounted cam boxes to make it look like an early model motor. You can even mount the alternator on the passenger side, only you would know it was a big block motor.
Carl in Virginia
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atruscott
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Re: 1438 Performance Builds

Post by atruscott » Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:53 am

.... and the scrutineers at all those period races Brad goes to...
1960 Autobianchi Bianchina Transformabile
1970 238 Camper OHV
1974 124 Wagon TC
1974 124 Special TC
1975 124 Sport Coupe
1976 124 Sport Spider (The Racer)
1981 Spider 2000 (The Resurrected)
1985 Pininfarina Azzurra
2017 124 Spider Abarth Elaborazione
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cgranju
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Re: 1438 Performance Builds

Post by cgranju » Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:08 pm

Caught driving a 124 with the casting numbers ground off the block.
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friedman
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Re: 1438 Performance Builds

Post by friedman » Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:48 pm

Damn....don't you hate that! Better make sure the vin plate matches what is stamped on the firewall. And yet another interesting thread drifts off to uselessness.
Carl in Virginia
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cgranju
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Re: 1438 Performance Builds

Post by cgranju » Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:31 pm

true, but perhaps the real message to derive is there may not a be a helluva lot of experience with hot 1438s here.
Chris Granju
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SimcaBertone66
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Re: 1438 Performance Builds

Post by SimcaBertone66 » Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:29 pm

Carl, a mass produced engine, assembled in a engine assembly line is still a mass produced product. My proposition is that, the same engine disassembled and reassembled, by an actual race engine builder, will need additional machine work, to truly build it to "blue printed" specification ... I know you like build up your own engines ? .. Have you had the entire rotating assembly (crank pulley, crankshaft, flywheel, and clutch kit dynamically balanced... were all the parts are lined up and marked and see bits of weight welded to the clutch ?? I Basta
Joe DeGasperis
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