Outer lighting Switch

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kendall
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Outer lighting Switch

Post by kendall » Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:24 am

Hello everyone,

I am looking at troubleshooting some headlights that unexpectedly stopped working. I am considering just installing relays, but as I'm not getting power to the headlights themselves, I think it would be best to sort that first.

I was looking at the wiring diagram for the 1975 spider and it shows an "outer lighting switch" between the power from the ignition switch and the headlight beam selector switch. Where is that outer lighting switch located? I could be missing something but my understanding was that the headlights just had their one switch.

Thanks for your time to reply.
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bartigue
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Re: Outer lighting Switch

Post by bartigue » Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:21 am

There is the switch on the dashboard that controls on and off. On and off and parking. There is the lever on the column that controls bright lights on or off.
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kendall
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Re: Outer lighting Switch

Post by kendall » Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:43 pm

Thank you, Brad. As always you are a font of fine Fiat knowledge. I knew about that switch but my brain didn't put 2 and 2 together.
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Re: Outer lighting Switch

Post by bartigue » Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:01 pm

Probably because it is the dumbest layout one could imagine. I can only think it evolved from a simple off/park/headlight switch (on the dash) to an eventual need for a dipper on the column. FIAT being FIAT, why spend the money for a single integrated switch when you can have two?

If its any consolation the pininfarina Spider setup is actually worse.

Consider it "charming"
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1969, 1969, 1970, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1982, and 1982 124 Spiders
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atruscott
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Re: Outer lighting Switch

Post by atruscott » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:26 pm

The column mounted switch on the Pinin is a piece of art. Just leave it in the position that works for you and never change it!
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vandor
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Re: Outer lighting Switch

Post by vandor » Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:47 pm

bartigue wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:01 pm
I can only think it evolved from a simple off/park/headlight switch (on the dash) to an eventual need for a dipper on the column.
It evolved from the early 124s, where the switch on the dash was only an on/off switch and the stalk was parking/low beams/high beams. I think they eventually realized that it's too easy to accidentally go from high beams to parking lights (ie. nothing at all when you are driving on the highway), that is why the parking lights got moved to the dash switch.

Even today column stalk functions are different from car to car, even all Japanese cars are not the same, never mind ones from different countries...
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Re: Outer lighting Switch

Post by jseabolt » Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:19 pm

I think dumbest accessory setup is the wipers. The column switch has three positions. Off, delay, constant". Then there speed control in the dashboard. So you have two delay speeds and two constant speeds. I've never seen a wiper setup like this.

Yet the X 1/9 has four positions Off, slow delay, slow constant , fast.

I've always wondered if it was possible to mount an X 1/9 column switch setup on a Spider. I think it would bolt right up to the Spider steering column but matching up the wires maybe a nightmare. Unless the X 1/9 and Spiders of the same era use the same colored wires. Not just the wipers but the turn signals and headlight low/high beam switches.

There seems to be no standard for headlight switches on older cars.

On my MGB, the headlight switch is a lever mounted on the left hand side of the steering column. Push it forward once for the park lights and forward a second time for the headlights.

Pull the column switch back for low beams, forward for high beams. Back from low beams for flash to pass.

On my Citron 2CV, the headlight switch is a stalk on the opposite side of the steering column. With this switch you actually rotate the stalk forward once for park lights and again for the headlights.

It used to be pull back for high beams, push forward for low (just the opposite of most cars) so I reversed the wires at to the switch so the switch operated the same as my other cars. I believe it's push forward for flash to pass but now that I have reversed the wires, I guess that feature is useless. Who's going to try to pass a modern car in a car making 29 HP anyway?

Push in on the stalk to blow the horn.

BTW, anybody ever use flash to the pass function on any car? This seems to be a European thang that somehow migrated to American cars. What country came up with that? If someone flashed their lights behind me on a dark road that would either piss me off or make me nervous.

If I want to pass someone, I just throw my left blinker on, pull into the left lane and floor it. That's how we do it in 'Merica..
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Re: Outer lighting Switch

Post by vandor » Sun Aug 18, 2019 1:38 pm

jseabolt wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:19 pm
I think dumbest accessory setup is the wipers. The column switch has three positions. Off, delay, constant". Then there speed control in the dashboard. So you have two delay speeds and two constant speeds. I've never seen a wiper setup like this.
It's because most Fiats of the 60s did not have a speed control, they just added it to the 124 Sport models as a bonus.

Back then even intermittent wipers were a rare feature, even my 1972 Mercedes does not have it, even tho it cost 3 times as much as a Spider when it was new!
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Re: Outer lighting Switch

Post by fiatrn » Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:10 pm

My '71 850 Sedan has a seperate toggle for interior lights on/off!

So one switch for outer lighting, one for inner lighting

Then the column switch for parking/low/high.

I actually love the lightness and delicacy of the column switch in the 850 It feels very lovely - and really, how often have I accidentally knocked the switch into "parking" only on a dark night? Err, several times. It's scary. But sorta fun. Sorta...
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Re: Outer lighting Switch

Post by fiat850 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:50 pm

jseabolt wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:19 pm
BTW, anybody ever use flash to the pass function on any car? This seems to be a European thang that somehow migrated to American cars. What country came up with that? If someone flashed their lights behind me on a dark road that would either piss me off or make me nervous.

If I want to pass someone, I just throw my left blinker on, pull into the left lane and floor it. That's how we do it in 'Merica..
"Flash to pass" is used when you're stuck behind the idiot 'Merican doing 50mph in the left lane. If one gets pissed off or nervous because of this, I'd suggest they do everyone a favor & just stay off the road.
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